It's the internet; it's a freedom of speech free for all. I've seen quite a few pro-circumcision propaganda posters, and I've seen so many that I thought I was used to it.
Which is why I was surprised to find the this picture in my Facebook news feed today, particularly from a group that calls itself "Granola Babies."
Can you spot what this group craftily decided to sneak in there?
"Granola Babies" gives off the impression that it's a group for crunchy moms, and as far as I was aware, crunchy moms want everything that is the most natural for their kids, which is why I thought it rather revolting to see this picture trying to pretend like circumcision fits right up there with co-sleeping and breast-feeding. The "I work outside the home" seems pointless up there; who cares WHERE you work, as long as you're taking care of your kids.
The caption that accompanied this filth read:
"Let's celebrate our differences as mothers and that we love our babies the same. ♥"
I was fuming.
No, seriously, what self-serving, self-congratulating crap.
As if circumcision were this "choice" parents are entitled to, much less a "crunchy" one.
This to me seems like nothing more than a deliberate inflammatory piece of propaganda aimed at inciting the ire of human rights activists.
And they knew exactly what they were doing. Oh yes they did.
The caption continues:
"Update on this picture ~ Unfortunately the message was lost on some and many unkind posts towards other posters (now deleted) have been made and are not such that Granola Babies is willing to host. There were even a couple of posts stating that mothers do not love their babies the same if she did ___ (insert box) different than her.
In particular -
All posts that continue the circumcision debate will be deleted. This isn't a platform for this debate."
I've said it before on a different blog post, but if people don't want to hear it from us intactivists, if they don't want to host the "circumcision debate," why post inciteful things at all?
I posted more than a piece of my mind, and as promised, my comments were promptly deleted.
But they are gravely mistaken if they think they're going to post this crap and not hear about it from intactivists.
These self-serving idiots just want to pretend like mutilating your child is "just another choice" and we should all be "celebrating our differences."
Well, what do they think of mothers who have gone ahead and circumcised their daughters?
Should we "celebrate" that?
Maybe it's "different" with said mothers of circumcised daughters, and they don't "love their children the same?"
Sexist, self-serving double-standard to be treating male circumcision, and male circumcision ONLY as a "choice" mothers can be making.
The fact is, if being a parent justified everything you did with your children, then there wouldn't be a need for child protective services.
There is such a thing as horrible parents out there, and at some point what they do to their children crosses over into abuse, and shit has to hit the fan.
"Granola Babies" seems to be in the business of pleasing the masses and just issuing out touchy-feely slogans and propaganda that congratulates idiotic parenting.
In the words of John Steinbeck:
"No one wants advice, only corroboration."
And, it looks like "Granola Babies" is more than happy to supply it.
I've taken their sick disgusting poster and made a parody of it:
Yes, "Granola Babies," let's celebrate.
But you know what, this isn't about parents.
I don't blame parents for making a "choice" based on the "advice" their charlatan pediatrician or OB/GYN gave them. Can parents be blamed if they were told that not circumcising their children would result in their child getting penile cancer and dying of AIDS?
No.
That responsibility lies in the charlatans that sell the lies they need to to profit at the expense of children, and at the expense of parental trust.
The bottom line question is always this:
Without medical or clinical indication, can doctors even be performing surgery on healthy, non-consenting minors, let alone be giving their parents any kind of "choice?"
Without a medical or clinical indication, how is it doctors are even stoking in mothers this false sense of entitlement?
That is "Granola Babies'" biggest failure; they are perpetuating the myth that parents are entitled to perform needless surgery on their healthy, non-consenting children.
Does "Granola Babies" celebrate the "choice" of mothers who chose to have their daughters circumcised?
No?
What if it were a "ritual nick" as once approved by the AAP, where they said it dwarves in comparison to male infant circumcision?
Let's see how much support "Granola Babies" gives mothers who had "sunat" performed on their daughters.
Shameless, self-serving, disgusting pieces of shit.
Give TRUE crunchy advice, you lousy people-pleasers.
Related story: GRANOLA BABIES: Responses to "Celebratory" Ad
I refuse to support any page, organization, etc. that so openly says RIC is OK (even if indirectly). What makes it worse is that this page/organization claims to be "crunchy/granola."
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry... Removing a child's healthy and functioning body parts without immediate medical necessity is nowhere near anything natural/crunchy/granola.
Thank you for this. You speak exactly to the issue which is sexism. You also address the FACT that parents don't have rights, they have responsibilities to keep children safe. If parents cannot or will not do this, then society MUST.
ReplyDeleteExcellent rebuttal. Shared & tweeted.
ReplyDeletecant believe a "natural parenting" website is trying to support RIC..... embarassing.
ReplyDeleteAgree. Every time someone posts something in my local "crunch" group about circumcision (article about the AAP's "new stance") a bunch of people rail against it (pointing out error, outlining the human rights issues), a handful of people bravely share that they circumcised their sons and regret it, and then someone gets offended and comes back with the "parental choice" nonsense.
ReplyDeleteNext time someone uses the AAP report link them this. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.full.pdf+html
DeleteA +. Couldnt agree more.
ReplyDeleteI disagree big time. Nowhere does it say we should celebrate the parenting decisions nor whether they are decisions that were regretted later or made in necessity, it just says celebrate the similarities that they all love their kids. So should a mother who is bombarded with misinformation and pressures and allows her son to be circumcised and later becomes sick with regret and falls into a deep PPD as a result be forever ostracized because her son is circumcised? I did initially feel a little weird about the inclusion of circumcision until I remembered how many very crunchy moms I know who circumcised their first son and regretted it later and went on to join anticirc. groups and not circumcise future sons. Had they said "lets celebrate all parenting choices!" I would agree with you 100%, but it doesn't say that. Read it again.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like you are giving the creators of this poster the benefit of the doubt. To each their own.
DeleteThe poster says circumcision is a "different choice" that should be celebrated, and that is sexist, self-serving, self-congratulation on the part of the creator.
Perhaps the original creator didn't mean it that way, but that's how s/he comes off, and it doesn't help that Granola Babies wants to pretend it doesn't, deleting all who disagree.
It has come to my attention that Granola Babies is a business. More than likely this was an attempt to pander to mother's who circumcised and/or are planning to circumcise their children, which is probably their biggest customer base. It makes sense to imply that circumcision is this "choice" for which parents should not only be let off the hook, it should be "celebrated."
Yes, I know there are mothers who regret their son's circumcision. Perhaps coming to terms with it and realizing they now know better is something that should be celebrated. No, mother's shouldn't be continuously made to feel guilty.
But that is not the message I get from this poster. This poster seems to seek mothers who circumcised their children and tries to make them feel justified to have made "just a different choice." Knowing that Granola Babies is a business, it seems this was just their intention in order to encourage them to make their purchases with them.
This poster is capitalizing at the expense of children's rights. It remains condemned on this blog, and Granola Babies needs to retract this piece of circumcision propaganda right now. It will probably be the worst business decision they ever made.
They are deceptively NOT crunchy; with American doctors encouraging circumcision, and with the stigma that still persists in this country against not being circumcised, and mothers who leave their children intact DEFINITELY hear it from other circumcising mothers, the caption should have read "He is NOT circumcised," or better yet "he is intact." That would have better fit in with actual crunchy choices like co-sleeping and breast-feeding.
"He is circumcised" is so out of place here!
As out of place as "she is circumcised."
You don't seem to address the questions I made; how far is Granola Babies going to enable horrible parental "choices" to attract a customer base?
Would they agree to "celebrate" a Malaysian woman's decision to "sunat" her daughter?
You're right, it doesn't say it's the "right choice," and maybe she regrets it.
Yes? No?
Sorry, the poster is a mistake and it needs to be taken down.
Yeah, Chrissy, you're totally missing the point. Like I posted every time I saw this mess of a poster, if you had replaced "He is circumcised" with "I am a stay at home mom" there would be no controversy. Circumcising your child is not a way to raise him. It's just a mistake that is done once, either out of ignorance and/or stupidity by the parent. It CANNOT be compared to the other ways of actually raising a child, which is done on a daily basis through adulthood. It has NOTHING to do with parents who cut their sons and later regretted it. It is NOTHING to celebrate. It is a stigma that needs to be eradicated.
DeleteI think upsetting people must've been the point of creating and posting that image. It looks like someone has nothing better to do than to try to hurt people. This shows the poster's true colors and will ultimately turn around and bite them.
ReplyDelete@Hannah, I know exactly what you mean, anytime I share my experience, it seems like there are also those who come out of the woodwork exclaiming that circumcision is a parental right! I circumcised 2 of my 3 sons because I was young and dumb (not that all young moms are dumb...but I was) and I regret it probably more than anything else in the world. I did it because I really believed it was for the best- not for any aesthetic reasons and the minute I realized that wasn't true, I felt like a monster. My 3rd son is intact and any future children will be as well because it is not my foreskin to remove. A parental choice is something like "oh I want to let my son play with dolls to teach him to be nurturing". A parental choice is not one that permanently alters a child for absolutely no medical reason whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteThis was very well written. I must admit that I had the same reaction when I saw that poster. I'm glad someone shared my feelings toward it.
Giselle Baturay, the owner of Granola Babies, created this poster for one reason only: to send a message of acceptance and love to ALL mothers. That is what her entire business/blog is founded upon. I have been attending classes and mothers' groups at Granola Babies (all of which are FREE), since my son was a newborn, and I credit her for my granola transformation. I am one of those mothers who had an epidural and had my son circumcised in the hospital, as per convention. After meeting and having numerous open-minded discussions with Giselle and other granola mothers at her store, I will do things differently next time. However, if I had encountered any hate-filled intactivists like the ones writing messages on these posts, I NEVER would have stayed to hear what else they had to say and would have missed the message. By creating a place (both in her store and on her blog) where all mothers can come to share and learn from one another, without fearing that we'll be condemned for our choices, Giselle will be able to influence so many more mothers towards natural parenting. I can see that you care deeply about this issue. If you really want to reach mothers like me, maybe you should give Giselle's approach a try.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, maybe I define "hate" differently, I went through my comments and I'm just not seeing the "hate."
DeleteAre you really interpreting what you see as "hate?" Or are you a Granola Babies drone sent out to slander intactivists? Been an intactivist long enough to know actual hateful people who want to smear our movement exist.
I agree; parents should not be attacked or be made to feel guilty. I believe parents all want the best for their children, and those who chose circumcision probably believe their son would get AIDS or cancer otherwise. Doctors took advantage of parental fear to con them into circumcising their sons.
Parents who went ahead with circumcision shouldn't be made to feel justified and encouraged to remain ignorant either.
I'm sorry, I don't know this Giselle woman, but her poster sends the horrendous message that circumcision is this "patental choice" like any other that should be "celebrated."
Sorry if pointing out that this is WRONG is "hateful" and "judgmental" to you.
If Giselle only means well, why does she not allow even polite comments criticizing her ad on her Facebook page? Why is she deleting comments? Blocking people? Doesn't sound like someone who wants to make things right for everyone, just cater to her customer base.
Is she interested in this wonderful forum for parents? Or is she seeking to gain more customers by pandering to them?
Her ad sends the wrong message. If she wanted to send the message you say she did, she screwed up royally.
Her poster is infuriating and insulting. It sends the message that circumcision is to be a "celebrated parental choice." Some parents parent differently. Sometimes it's parenting, sometimes it's abuse. We shouldn't pardon abuse as just "a different way of parenting."
If she wants to make things right she needs to issue out a new and revised poster and offer an apology.
This is poster is an abomination.
We shouldn't pardon abuse as just "a different way of parenting."
DeleteBravo! Couldn't have said it better myself, which is why I'm "stealing" it. :)
That's it in a nutshell, folks!
The hateful and judgemental comments I was referring to were the ones Giselle deleted from the Granola Babies page, not those on this blog. And I believe that she does welcome opposing viewpoints, however, it is perfectly reasonable to shut down all postings after a critical level of disrespect and nastiness has been exceeded. I don't want to get into the debate of whether Giselle was right or wrong in creating this poster. I only wanted to come to her defense against people who questioned her INTENTIONS. I believe what she was trying to say at the bottom of the poster was, "Let's start from a place of knowing that we all love our children equally regardless of our different choices. Now, let's get together and have an open-minded and respectful discussion about those choices to see what we can learn from one another." That kind of forum is something worth celebrating, and that is what Giselle is trying to create.
ReplyDeleteIn an earlier post, you said:
Delete"However, if I had encountered any hate-filled intactivists like the ones writing messages on these posts..."
A bit of a contrast from:
"The hateful and judgemental comments I was referring to were the ones Giselle deleted from the Granola Babies page, not those on this blog."
You say:
"And I believe that she does welcome opposing viewpoints, however, it is perfectly reasonable to shut down all postings after a critical level of disrespect and nastiness has been exceeded."
It is difficult to believe that there was any "disrespect" and "nastiness" out of just word of mouth, especially after intactivists that I know for a fact are polite and tactful left respectful comments, only to have them deleted and to be blocked.
I know that there are "intactivists" out there that are nasty. I know. I can be one of them if people get my goat. But I also know that there are people out there who want to smear our movement and either pretend to be intactivist, leaving nasty comments, or outright tell lies and make shit up. That's why it's always a good idea to keep a record on who said what when. Intactivists have learned to keep screen shots and keep copies of what is posted, so that people can't come out and slander us.
"I don't want to get into the debate of whether Giselle was right or wrong in creating this poster."
Well guess what, hollyr, that is what this whole blog post series is about. Contribute or just step...
"I only wanted to come to her defense against people who questioned her INTENTIONS."
The road to hell is paved with good intent...
"I believe what she was trying to say at the bottom of the poster was, "Let's start from a place of knowing that we all love our children equally regardless of our different choices. Now, let's get together and have an open-minded and respectful discussion about those choices to see what we can learn from one another."
This may have been her intent, but intent and outcome are two completely different things. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the message the poster sends. Many of us see it as condoning infant genital mutilation as a legitimate "choice" parents shouldn't have to think twice about, but instead, "celebrate."
"That kind of forum is something worth celebrating, and that is what Giselle is trying to create."
If Giselle wanted to make things right, she would listen to us and change her poster. Instead, she gets on the defense, accusing of "nastiness" we don't really know happened for a fact. She deletes even polite, peaceful comments and blocks all who dare question her.
That doesn't sound at all like someone who wants to "bring people together." That sounds like someone whose intention is to marginalize, make herself seem altruistic, and by doing that, gaining more business from the mothers whose favor she gains.
I reiterate; intended or not, the ad sends the message that circumcision is a "choice" to be "celebrated." It is despicable and infuriating and it needs to be retracted.
why not blame parents who mutilate kids? hopefully they feel some guilt for what they did. feeling guilt is the sign of having something called conscience.
ReplyDeletefunny too how nowadays any constructive criticism is called hate. since when did people start attacking people for what emotions they might have? and people are forgetting, that to hate evil is to love good.
dunno if that picture of the ungranola mamma there is the webmistress in question, but she sure liked cutting up her hair. all that's left is some scruff. and a toy seller thinks she's some expert on parenting issues? don't make me spit my cereal milk up through my nose, lady.
Because it's usually not the parents who mutilated their children.
DeleteIt's doctors who did it and are getting away with stoking in them a false sense of entitlement, having them sign a release form, and then pointing at them and saying "They, those nasty parents made me do it."
Don't blame parents because they bought the AIDS/cancer bit line hook and sinker.
Blame the doctors and the medical organizations and legal systems that absolve them.
I go deeper into this here:
http://joseph4gi.blogspot.jp/2012/12/the-circumcision-blame-game.html
I agree; it seems today any sort of criticism, dissent, or even polite commentary is considered "hate," "judgement," "bashing" and what not.
It seems to be the fad nowadays for parents looking for validation to get together and stroke each other's egos. Instead of seeking actual advice, they grope for corroboration and people to agree with everything they say.
"Aren't I a great parent?"
"Why yes you are. The best there is."
"No one like you..."
"Um, I think you could do this differently..." [DELETE AND BAN]
Sites where parents basically come to validate each other and shut down any form of negative criticism are worthless. How do these people expect to become better parents if they only allow comments that agree with them and delete any comments that don't?
Yeah, it's rather clear that the creator of this poster is nothing more than an entrepreneur trying to expand her customer base. No better way to do this than pandering to parents that join websites and groups such as mentioned above.
I do think that parents who do it on a whim , especially When They Know It's Not Necessary, Deserve a Special Place In Hell.
ReplyDeleteIt's not on the parents; it is axiomatic that a fully-informed parent yields an intact child. Doctors have a big liability issue on their hands, and trespass and torture.
ReplyDelete